Curse

Torqual · Oct 30, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

This is my final post on this subject.

I have had a change of mind.

When I originally posted on this yesterday, it was in the Canthan Explorer's forum. It was not my intention to generate 15 pages of grief. The post was moved into The Riverside Inn by a moderator without my knowledge or consent.

It is fairly obvious that the opinions I have expressed are at odds with the vast majority of the Guild Wars Guru community. I had underestimated use of the 'Cartography Made Easy' tool and it's now evident that only a very small minority of Legendary Cartographers obtained their title without using the tool. And even those that did, a fair number are positive towards the use of it by others. Obtaining 100% cartography titles using Texmod is now the de facto 'normal' method and players should not be criticised for following where others have led.

This tool is clearly valued very highly by the community for making accessible a title that was seen as too difficult by most players. Furthermore it is a great piece of programming and a showpiece in the world of GW mods.

It's clear that taking away this mod or the titles that were rapidly-obtained with it would cause a great deal of unhappiness and do more harm than good.

My only request is therefore, to make a level playing field for everyone, the 'unfogging' and borderlines appearance of the in-game minimap should be implemented in the standard guild wars client to mirror Texmod so that all players can benefit from the vastly increased ease of Cartography and enjoy obtaining the titles. Personally, I would enjoy going for Cartography titles with some of my other characters, using this kind of map that clearly highlights unexplored areas. So, please implement this for everyone.

I wish to finish by making a complete and utter retraction of everything I have said in posts above. Please disregard all my previous posts as the incoherent rantings of a lunatic. All my views expressed are false, and unrepresentative of the community as a whole.

Please Gaile Gray, post that you will not take action over this and that there is nothing wrong with using this mod.

Now, this is no longer my issue. I wish to be left alone to enjoy the game in peace. I will not be reading this thread further and I hope that it is closed soon and forgotten sooner.

jhu · Oct 30, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

OGC Aimbot was available to everyone in CS. I guess it's fair. Floored logic, sorry. You said it yourself, it gives an advantage of which you can only gain if you are to download and use.

that's not a good comparison. aimbot gives a distinct advantage versus those without in a competitive environment. this texmod mapping method does not affect anyone other than yourself (unless you count the faster it takes to achieve legendary, which positively affects everyone else by increasing favor time).

Bryant Again · Oct 30, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

This tool is clearly valued very highly by the community for making accessible a title that was seen as too difficult by most players. Furthermore it is a great piece of programming and a showpiece in the world of GW mods.

And this will be my final post (at least for today : P) about the subject:

Again, it's not a piece of programming. It's just an image file. Secondly, a lot of people here don't want to lose the Carto mod because it makes things just a wee easier, but rather for the reasons I stated before: *The only way to remove the use of this cartomod is to eliminate the uses of mods altogether.* I don't want that. It's wonderful that Guild Wars can become so personal now. I don't want that taken away from a game I love.

elektra_lucia · Oct 30, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

@Jhu:

Quote:

that's not a good comparison. aimbot gives a distinct advantage versus those without in a competitive environment. this texmod mapping method does not affect anyone other than yourself (unless you count the faster it takes to achieve legendary, which positively affects everyone else by increasing favor time).

It's still cheating. Just like typing 'giveall' in quake was cheating. If everyone got the title much quicker, it would make drastic changes to favour, too. Not just a small one. This could mean that people farm fow more, and prices drop. There is also the fact that some may like to show off their title and it would lose meaning if it became super easy to get. I can see it now 'oh you used texmod to get it', 'no I didn't'. Just like botting to get money, you can argue you're not cheating against someone, but it can effect the economy. It's still cheating regardless of if it effected the economy though. The point about aimbot (and wallhack is more of a fair comparison), it is doing things for you. Who said I was talking about aimbotting vs people, and not the computer?

@Fril Estelin:
Honestly I was not trolling. I made the dll comment with ignorance, clearly. The point was not about banning a dll as such. It was that I would think the thing could be banned easily (forbid you to run it) if it was say a dll.

It would be like saying: If someone distributed an aimbot in CS, everyone knew about it, but there was only one aimbot going around. Then it would be easy to remove. I think if this mod IS to be banned, someone won't waste enough time re-making it, to get over cheat protecting and then re-distributing. I could of course be wrong. I am glad that you know about coding. Seriously. That makes the answer so much easier. As this is just an 'image file' surely they could just hash that?

Quote:

(that's actually not the interesting question, which is rather "where would you stop", but that's the one implied by your statement)

When I said knowing what to ban, I meant they would have the file. They wouldn't have to search private forums for it or something. It is easier to make anti cheat protection if you know what you're fighting against.

As you don't know what a troll is, here's to help:

Quote:

A troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages intended to cause a disruption in discourse and to provoke other members into hostility.

Seriously, you got the wrong idea, and you completely made a big deal over nothing. Leave me alone.

P.S. Trolling would be talking about how you like to run charm animal on your elementalist

.

Chthon · Oct 30, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And Gaile,...
Man if this is seriously going to be looked into by the "board" so to speak, then I reeeeealy hope that they get their facts straight. I don't want the GW modding community to be destroyed by a misunderstanding.

I agree wholeheartedly. OP did not have his facts straight, and his later posts demonstrate that he still does not have his facts straight. If we're looking at the possibility of modding getting shut down over this, I want "the board" to be looking at what these mods really can and can't do for you, and NOT at OP's warped and exaggerated description.

That last sentence was so important, I'm going repeat it in bold. <ahem>

IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THE POSSIBILITY OF MODDING GETTING SHUT DOWN OVER THIS, I WANT "THE BOARD" TO BE LOOKING AT WHAT THESE MODS REALLY CAN AND CAN'T DO FOR YOU, AND NOT AT OP'S WARPED AND EXAGGERATED DESCRIPTION.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Enter a zone and it says "100% explored" in corner or 98.2% explored or whatever.

This idea is an old one and a good one. It's what I've always wanted to see for carto.

That and the outermost ring of fog (beyond the edges of the passable terrain) simply not counted as part of the title track (not needed and no credit if you uncover it).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

To who? I don't care if you got Legendary Cartographer. I also don't care if you got God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals. I care if I get those titles, and you should care if you get those titles. But don't try to make me care about what you did or didn't do, and how much effort you did or did not put into something.

I think you strike perfectly at the heart of the matter. At least with regard to OP's initial post. OP wanted to feel special. He wanted to feel better than the rest of us. He used to feel that him having the Canthan carto title while the rest of us didn't made him special. Now that so many people have it too, he doesn't feel special any more. His response? Complain to a-net to "nerf other people." It's the same pathetic elitist sentiment that infects the community in too many other respects. I'm glad that OP seems to have changed his mind in his final post. I just hope that the community doesn't lose this and other great mods because of it.

electrofish · Oct 30, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Sry didn't read your final post, replied to an earlier one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

This tool is clearly valued very highly by the community for making accessible a title that was seen as too difficult by most players. Furthermore it is a great piece of programming and a showpiece in the world of GW mods.

except that it's not a program but an image file as pointed out by Bryant Again

ChaoticCoyote · Oct 30, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

It's still cheating.

Do you consider it cheating to read about a mission or quest on a wiki?

Do you consider the use of EOTN consummables to be cheating?

Do you consider people using photoshop to compare screen shots (for help with the carto titles) a form of cheating?

elektra_lucia · Oct 30, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrofish

Where the hell do I fit in then?

1) I did the title without modifying my game client (tick) disappointed that it's been cheapened (ehh... no, so not in the first category.)

2) I only have Cantha and Elona mapped (on my own btw) atm can't be bothered to do Tyria. (so I don't fit in here either)

3) I have the mod downloaded after reading a thread floating around here called "cartographer made easy" and have tried the tyria mod out (so I do know what I'm talking about) and I really think it's a great idea. I might even use it someday to complete my legendary cartographer title if it in itself wasn't so much grind!!

make me a new category pls

Read what he said:

Quote:

Now, this is no longer my issue. I wish to be left alone to enjoy the game in peace. I will not be reading this thread further and I hope that it is closed soon and forgotten sooner.

As for this:

Quote:

Do you consider reading a wiki to be cheating?

Do you consider the use of EOTN consummables to be cheating?

Do you consider people using photoshop to compare screen shots (for help with the carto titles) a form of cheating?

Already answered it.

I'm sick of repeating myself.

unienaule · Oct 30, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

So, when you go to cap elites, you just randomly pick a zone, clear it, and hope the boss you want is there?

Star Gazer · Oct 30, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

horray for laziness. quit being lazy and "needing" a tool to help you. do these titles really up your selfesteem? its seems that it does

Effendi Westland · Oct 30, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

horray for laziness. quit being lazy and "needing" a tool to help you. do these titles really up your selfesteem? its seems that it does

No, but it helps us get rainbow phoenix on non-main chars

(havent used the mod myself for my main, using it now on 2ndary chars)

ChaoticCoyote · Oct 30, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

horray for laziness. quit being lazy and "needing" a tool to help you. do these titles really up your selfesteem? its seems that it does

My self-esteem isn't based on a game.

Nor do I use these mods, since I have no interest in the Cartography titles. 98% of the map is good enough for me; I doubt that last 2% holds any wonders.

I am disturbed by Gailes' esponse to the OP. ANet includes these mods on their official wiki, with explicit approvalf or their use; it seems quite hypocritical to decide to take "action" now.

Of course, it could well be that ANet is afraid that people will realize that the current game is nothing more than repeating the same material over and over again.

Most of the features introduced since the beginning of 2007 have been "make work" -- time-consuming retreads of existing material. If a grind title like Cartographer gets too easy... well, they need to keep folk addicted and grinding if they hope to have an intact playerbase for GW2.

Mordakai · Oct 30, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Shouldn't this thread be closed now? Is there anything really left to "discuss"?

Either Anet condemns this mod, and with it, all user based mods.

Or it stays as is.

Sir Green Aluminum · Oct 30, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

Do you consider it cheating to read about a mission or quest on a wiki?

Do you consider the use of EOTN consummables to be cheating?

Do you consider people using photoshop to compare screen shots (for help with the carto titles) a form of cheating?

No because they don't give an unfair advantage, and the second one is part of the game that everyone who has EOTN has access to. Third one, you still have to figure out where the clouds dont' match, you don't get it out in red and obvious. Anyone who got the title before this mod knows it's god damn hard to max it, I got to 97 and got sick of it and you hear about all these people who have like .1 they have left and they can't find it. You have to scrape every wall and if you can't find which wall it is you'll have to go through the whole game again. This mod is pretty much a free 3 titles and monuments to everyone who downloads it. And dont' think no one is going to do it. Everyone who wants the max titlez is going to want it. You still have to walk there to get it, but it removes the Hours with a capital H of guess work and walking/wall scraping to find it. If it did'nt give an unfair advantage or an advantage alone who would download it?

Call it the mod that killed the honor of the title, it's a waste of time to do it the non-modded way now. Don't be like Socrates and die for principals when you can escape, save your self the frustration, time and mod the damn thing. But if you're one of those people who does'nt like downloading stuffs, I'm sorry for your loss of time, but I would'nt continue normally if I were you. All you can do is hope that Anet will make their fog more clear.

the_jos · Oct 30, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

People that say this is the same as map comparing in Photoshop are talking utter nonsense. To do this in Photoshop (something I never did) requires you to take many, many screenshots of different areas and go through a lengthy manual process to align and paste layers each. It's something you would do only in desperation when you need the last 0.1% or 0.2% and can't for the life of you work out what you missed. Like I say, I was a competent and thorough cartographer, I didn't rush things, I understood that I was searching for the invisible, and I damn well flayed the skin off my right shoulder to get this title. And the obvious point anyway is that Photoshop doesn't draw you a fracking border that updates dynamically as you move. "Did I hit it yet? Did I hit it yet? Ah, got it. Right, let's map out and go and finish the next zone in 40 seconds."

Jumped straigt to the end after reading this, could be covered by others.

Many screenshots, align and paste layers?
You never did compare, that's a thing that's true...
A single zoomed-out map at decent resolution (1280x1024 or larger) is all you need.

That's the way Tyrian exploration was done and how I did compares for guildies on both Cantha and Elona.

You also mention that there seems no update on the screen when walking along some edges.
Also not entirely true.
It's however a small difference, not always visible when you don't pay close attention to the edges on the compass and U-map.

I'm a LC from long before Texmod and did not get any help from the forum on compares.
I however did help others and have earned my tracks with my postings on that subject.
Not only compares, but also (a sticky) posting on where most missed Tyrian spots are.

I have my proven trackrecord on this subject and you tell me that I am talking nonsence?
To me it seems you are taking this way to serious!

CyberNigma · Oct 30, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I think using the mod de-values it for those people, but it doesn't de-value it for me. I don't play to prove I'm better than them and even before the titles came out I was mapping every nook and cranny of Tyria just because...

Some people map different ways though. When I map I usually run unless I have to fight an area of mobs. There's no way I could do it in a day without a mod like that. Everyone has different skills. The fact they got theirs quick using a mod should bother you unless you all are in some kind of tight knit real-life group that talks about that stuff. I also map as I play throug a game then go back and run zones I know I didn't map. When I have the last piece sometimes it can take a while sometimes it goes quick. I've done it with several characters so I have a feel for what I may be missing. If you're clearing each zone to map then you may be making it longer unless you get every nook and cranny before leaving, otherwise you have to clear it again.

Summary: Ignore them, especially if you don't even know them in real life. Unless someone's cheating or using a mod prevents you or me from doing something, who cares. If it doesn't prevent you from doing anything, it's just an ego thing (which I admit, having KOABD that KOABD is an ego thing and is neat to have).

onerabbit · Oct 30, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

i can do them all in a day... Textmod FTW .. thats how i got mine lol

grottoftl · Oct 30, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

i didnt know cartographer titles had any value

why are a few of you so self righteous about a measly little title that doesnt effect your gameplay?

if players want to use a mod to aid them, let them its no different than looking up a fully explored map to see what areas you need to uncover

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

horray for laziness. quit being lazy and "needing" a tool to help you. do these titles really up your selfesteem? its seems that it does

so what are you saying? these titles are worth value or not?

jhu · Oct 30, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Green Aluminum

Anyone who got the title before this mod knows it's god damn hard to max it, I got to 97 and got sick of it and you hear about all these people who have like .1 they have left and they can't find it. You have to scrape every wall and if you can't find which wall it is you'll have to go through the whole game again.

i got legendary grandmaster cartographer prior to learning about texmod. the only issue is having to wall scrape. that's not that hard. even if you start out mapping from the beginning by wall scraping, it still takes hours upon hours to do. it's a rather colossal waste of time.

jhu · Oct 30, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

@Jhu:
It's still cheating. Just like typing 'giveall' in quake was cheating. If everyone got the title much quicker, it would make drastic changes to favour, too. Not just a small one. This could mean that people farm fow more, and prices drop. There is also the fact that some may like to show off their title and it would lose meaning if it became super easy to get. I can see it now 'oh you used texmod to get it', 'no I didn't'. Just like botting to get money, you can argue you're not cheating against someone, but it can effect the economy. It's still cheating regardless of if it effected the economy though. The point about aimbot (and wallhack is more of a fair comparison), it is doing things for you. Who said I was talking about aimbotting vs people, and not the computer?

type 'giveall' although "cheating" doesn't really affect anyone except yourself, unless you're playing with other people. and if you're playing by yourself, well, who cares? so that's not a good example. as for having increased favor with more farming and decreased prices, i would consider that a good thing. with regard to aimbots, who cares if you're playing by yourself and using an aimbot or wall hack? if it affects other people, it's another issue.

i really don't know why this is getting more attention than it really deserves. the op has dropped out already. so we may potentially see a slight increase in favor prolongation (despite the fact that it still takes many many hours to complete this title). realistically, this affects no one but whoever uses it.